S04E27 – American History X Review (Part 1)

The title says it all. This week B Black and Gavin review the 1998 film American History X. Starring Edward Norton and Edward Furlong as two brothers from Los Angeles who are involved in the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements.

American History X is a 1998 American crime drama film directed by Tony Kaye and written by David McKenna. The film stars Edward Norton and Edward Furlong, as two brothers from Los Angeles who are involved in the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements. The older brother (Norton) serves three years in prison for voluntary manslaughter, and during this time, he is rehabilitated, and then tries to prevent his brother from going down the same path. The supporting cast includes Fairuza Balk, Stacy Keach, Elliott Gould, Avery Brooks, Ethan Suplee and Beverly D’Angelo.

Your Hosts:

  Gavin StephensGAVIN STEPHENS


  B. Black


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Gavin 0:00
Good day, everyone. Welcome to another fabulous episode of uncolonized. I hope everyone’s taking care of themselves doing this, this COVID nonsense. Take care of yourself. Don’t listen to Donald Trump. Anyway, this week, we’re doing a movie review, we’re doing American History X p black, and I sat down and talked about American History X ray watched it and talked about it. It’s a long review, it’s two hours, we’ll put the first hour out for everyone. And then the second hour will be on our patreon@patreon.com forward slash the uncolonized I think we’re going to be changing that format. So if you’re a Patreon listener, or if you’re thinking about joining patrons $5 a month, we’re going to be doing an after show, so it’d be like a bonus episode, as opposed to chopping up the episode these episodes in half you’ll get a full episode for free. And then a bonus episode that we’re calling the after show we’re gonna be talking about like more things and probably like commenting on other things about these subjects. Probably a later on reflection kind of deal. But anyway, without further ado, here is the first part of, of American History X review. Enjoy.

Welcome to uncolonized . I’m Dan Stevens. Each week I’m joined by my friend be black to have a conversation about race, politics, pop , all from a Canadian perspective. It’s a cathartic no holds barred conversation between two friends by being in the barber shop, but we can’t go here. Okay, yeah, so yeah, here we are. Here we are. This is a rerecord. Just so anyone we recorded this and then Was shit and then we, we recorded but we’re doing the film. We’re gonna review the movie American History X. I’ll do I’ll just do it like a brief Wikipedia. It’s a it’s a 1998 American crime drama film directed by Tony Kaye and run by David McKenna. The film starts Edward Norton and Edward Furlong. It’s two brothers from Los Angeles, who are involved in white supremacy who are involved in the white supremacists and neo nazi movements. The older brother Norton serves three years in prison for voluntary manslaughter. And during this time, he rehabilitate and then tries to prevent his brother from going down the same path. The supporting cast includes for Rosa B ALC, Stacy Keach. Stacy Keach, don’t be a dick. Didn’t you know? He’s Spencer for higher grammar these lovely show? Elliott Gould. Avery Brooks. Ethan souffle who lost a ton of weight, and Beverly D’Angelo. Yeah,

B Black 2:57
wait, all the people started.

Gavin 2:58
Yeah. There’s all the People in the movie okay you didn’t you didn’t you know okay sorry okay the way I my listing of people starting the movie I put Ed Norton and guy Tori the black guy so Ed Norton and I didn’t even have Guy torian this I went with the, but I it’s Edward Norton and Edward Furlong starring guy Tori’s kind of a supporting character.

B Black 3:22
Yeah, that’s what the white man wants you to think.

Gavin 3:24
Well, I mean, that’s also what the film shows us. But you’re right.

Unknown Speaker 3:30
It is.

B Black 3:31
Gavin. Okay, who’s gonna support us?

Gavin 3:34
It’s true. It’s true. It is. It’s you know, the top billing is guy top.

B Black 3:41
Right? with 8.5 on IMDB.

Now, is like this is a pre recorded but in the first time we recorded Yeah, we were focused on the fact that director was British. Everything’s Tony Kay. And I was a little confused how a British person can speak about the experience of Americans. And I guess I left out the part because I don’t read well, right. I skipped the part where it said it was written by David McKenna. And David McKenna wrote this story based on it’s a fictional story, but that was his. It was based on McKenna’s childhood experience growing up in San Diego. So I guess he’s lived that shit like he’s been around.

Gavin 4:26
I mean, it’s a white supremacy story, right? I don’t know if it’s an American story. I mean, I guess you could say it’s an American story, but it’s it feels like, like the old neo nazis or in England, it feels like England’s had these immigrant problems like well, the immigrant problems, but this kind of situation in the 80s. Like, I think this is kind of like yeah, you could probably go into any country and kind of write this story.

B Black 4:46
Interesting. Okay, all right. Okay, this might be I think you might have pissed off a listener with that comment.

Gavin 4:56
neo nazi movements like we got in Canada, we got it like you go anywhere. There’s a NEO now

B Black 5:01
Okay, but but as a black guy, that’s what I’m thinking. But as a neo nazi, you’re probably telling yourself that Yo, neo nazi in Canada party harder than the neo nazi in America, you know what I mean? You probably shit like that or tan faster or tan less. I don’t know, whatever these guys might have bought. But you know, all I’m all I’m acknowledging is it’s a different world from the one where you are the one we’re used to. I’m gonna put that out there.

Gavin 5:27
Okay, is it?

B Black 5:29
Okay, well, we’ll get to it. That’s,

uh, yeah. Okay, let’s keep it so initial thoughts. You want to start first your thoughts. Now you

Gavin 5:39
go ahead. You go ahead.

B Black 5:41
Okay, so first time I saw this movie, I will admit, I hated the movie. hated it so much. I remember hating Ed Norton until he made Fight Club, which was the movie right after, but I remember you know, I’m like, fuck I’m never supported this motherfucker then saw a fight club like okay, the irony

Gavin 5:57
of Fight Club though, right? It’s like, that’s the movement for The alt right that movie is like the movie for the alt right. Yeah, that’s the irony of what you’re saying. Wow. Okay, but you know what that that says a lot about like, cuz you and I talked about this movie before. This is this is this is my point about this movie and how, like how this movie which was in the 90s 90 of Fight Club was in the 90s, too, but this movie is very much like a 90s story about race. And then Fight Club is more. And it wasn’t intended to be but it’s more of a it represents the the alt right in 2017 and 18 more than this movie does

B Black 6:41
not got a bit of Intel in there. Yeah. Like that.

Gavin 6:45
Yeah. And MiG tau men going their own way men going away.

B Black 6:49
Alright, so I’m establishing that when I first saw this movie, I hated the movie right? I fully came with the intention of doing this review shitting on the movie after I ree ree watched it. 45 year old me saw it. I got it. Like I I developed an appreciation for the movie I ended up liking it. The reason I hated it at first was because what I said, First time I hated the movie, I thought it was just an excuse for white people to drop the N word on big screen. And it just felt like another movie about hey, we cured racism by black people being nice to white people.

Unknown Speaker 7:27
They don’t even excuse

B Black 7:31
me at the time at the time, but now I was able and this is this what I was getting that you said at the beginning, but I felt and my younger self is gonna hate me for saying this. But I actually this fucked up. I actually felt like I connected with some of the characters in there. I’m not saying I liked them. I’m saying I understood some of their motive. I felt like it was really an I could be wrong, whatever, right? But as the writer of this movie is not me, but I felt the writer wrote an honest movie about what it’s like to be a white guy. That’s the way I interpreted the movie. So

Gavin 8:12
that’s why I’m saying I don’t know if it’s a white person movie. They all the things you’re saying, I don’t know if it’s a white person movie. I liked the movie when I was a kid. I was saying my 20s on came out the first time. Yeah, first time I saw I thought it was a really good movie about race. But I also had like 1990s a political theory in my head like I had that like, like race. Racism is done if we’re all you know, you know, no one’s truly you know what I mean? We’re all kind of racist that kind of you know, racism can be over if we just kind of love each other if you know, racist mix, everything’s great. Oh, God, I had that kind of naive perspective on it. Okay. I think the what the problem with this movie is, is I don’t think it’s a reflection of white people. I think it’s it when you use neo nazis as its skin Distance This is why, like, get out because get out is kind of like, it’s the insidiousness of white supremacy where this is like, neo nazis. It’s like, it’s like, you’re giving like people like the excuse to go, Wow. This is what Hollywood loves to do is like, well, it’s not us. It’s, it’s those people it’s like, clearly like it’s a guy with a . It’s like the extreme of of racism is like the racist. But um, I still think it’s a good movie, you still think that? I think the messaging is just so dated and so off. And I think it’s like it’s it’s a white person sharing their views on racism without talking about racism, while sharing their views on racism. For the white gays. That’s how I feel about it. I feel it’s like, it’s just like, so it’s so 90s the messaging is so nice. The filmmaking is good. The messaging is so nicely 90s

B Black 9:59
just just to An idea um, I the the first time I saw it I gave the movies to middle fingers. Now I’m giving it three quarters of a middle fingers. Okay, even though I liked it I would say it’s a movie I like but you know, anytime they’re put it this way anyway person makes a movie about racism and and and has a racist character in there you’re not you’re never gonna win with me either you keep it real? I’m not I’m not again. No I just want to stablish the three quarters either you keep it real and I’m going to hate you or you keep it fake and I’m going to hate the movie, you know, I mean, I’m just saying a white person can’t win when it comes to racism movie. So three.

Gavin 10:34
I see I disagree. I think I think people can make a race movie. I just think like it’s XYZ, this

B Black 10:41
sorry, I just wanted to have the three quarters of a middle finger is actually a good rating. Oh, okay. That’s all I would do. Okay, you’re saved. So

that’s an accomplishment. yt

Gavin 10:54
I just I don’t think like why people can’t have a make rate move. about racism I just don’t think like, like, or marginalization like, like if you look at Paris is burning that’s that’s done by a white woman and that’s a great movie about like marginalization and capitalism there’s like, feeling like a pardon Paris is burning. Yeah it’s a documentary about the the gay community in the balls they used to have in the in the 80s in the 90s. And it’s it’s a great documentary it’s so amazing. And yeah, it’s very sad and tragic and just like wow, this it’s this whole cult subculture being created that was created for for the for black and black, gay and brown, gay and trans, Hispanic trans and all just enough to feel like like they’re so like they’re important in their society like they belong they fit in in the whole movie is like, people just trying to be considered quote unquote normal, right like just average. But I mean, that’s done by white woman. I just think like, I think the problem with like a movie like this is like it has like the the the race introspection of a white dude from the 90s and but other than that I think the filmmaking isn’t bad that’s interesting and I think when you got Nazis Of course you’re gonna get Edwards and stuff like that. I also have a problem with like, the way they framed in Nazi ism in this like, it’s like it’s framed as heroic. is like, like, strong and heroic and brave and like, just like he’s so alpha.

B Black 12:31
Okay, see the first time I watched it, that’s what I thought but okay, you see her ROI. I’m saying real. I’m using the word real. It’s really yeah, I’m going real.

Gavin 12:42
This is like the slow motion shots after stopping on a black emotion like smirk with the muscles going down in his knees, that kind of thing. That’s that’s, that’s not like a like a, an image of like, he’s fucking badass. As an action movie shot for us. You

B Black 12:59
know what There’s a previous episode I joked about how if if, like if the apocalypse if the gets real like you know, yeah, curfews in the streets I was gonna join a gang right? And I didn’t factor the possibility What if the toughest gang in my neighborhood is a white supremacist game? Yeah but I’m saying they have they’re badass it’s unfortunate but they have they’re tough guys they have their they have their

Gavin 13:29
I hate you bring it up you’re taking this out like here’s my problem is that you’re taking it out of the context of a movie. You’re making it real life it’s not real life it’s a movie. framing is important in a movie right like so like like if you look at the movie every every person in this movie who has a leftist argument is like weak and ineffectual. They just like they don’t even have a point to their arguments just racism is wrong. That’s their only argument. Fucking Nazi has actual talking points. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay.

B Black 14:06
Can we can we establish with the with our listeners that okay this is probably a uncolonized podcast history where Gavin and I aren’t gonna be on the same page when it comes to this movie. We both agreed that we liked it. That’s for sure. But we liked it for different reasons I guess

Gavin 14:23
I don’t know. I don’t know if I liked it I think it’s a good movie. I don’t know if I like it. Like I’m pretty sure I don’t like it because I can’t get past the propaganda

Unknown Speaker 14:33

Gavin 14:34
Okay, you never use that Okay, so you see this just propaganda flick it well. I mean, it kind of is interesting. Okay. It’s saving Nazi propaganda as it is. It feels like Nazi propaganda. Okay, but it also feels like it feels like it’s like it’s white. It feels like it’s Nazi propaganda. With with like, the the Hollywood like typical racism. movie where it’s like the white guy learns his lesson without having to learn a lesson and becomes a hero without having to do anything. Like he like he had he didn’t have to do anything and all of a sudden he’s the hero of the movie that that’s my problem but like, like from the very first scene, which we’ll get into, he like he is framed as this alpha tough guy that just like like, up until the moment he changes you could if you were like a kid who was like skirting with the idea of the alt right this would be like a fucking Yeah, this guy’s cool. Wow. But I mean, am I wrong? You know, you

B Black 15:
sound like okay, all due respect. You.

You sound like the people who I don’t want my kids listen to this gangster shit because I’m worried that’s gonna turn them into gangster.

Gavin 15:50
No, no, no. Well, I’m maybe that sounds like that. But I mean, if you watch the movie, at what point does he sound is there like a counter argument or at least that Then the narrative of, Hey, this is a stupid ideology or this is a bad ideology.

B Black 16:06

Gavin 16:07
Yeah. Because Because I know you’re saying if you’re comparing me to the people who are like, Hey, you know, rappers is bad. It’s like, there’s racism mixed in that there is like, hey, there’s I don’t like the culture of rap. I don’t like the culture of Nazis. So I’ll take your I’ll take your, your comparison. I don’t like the culture of Nazis. So I do think Nazi ism is bad. Okay.

B Black 16:31
All right. I mean, like, I’m not agreeing with Oh, yo, okay. Okay. I want to jump to the scene by scene but I want to establish this that just to be clear, I listen to this like, like a lot of the gangster rap, the real shit that I listened to right. Where rappers talk about, Hey, I put babies in the microwave to prove a point to my to my adversaries that are really then you shit like that. You don’t I mean,

Gavin 16:58
but what I’m saying is like if but who Okay, I hear what you’re saying they’re telling they’re telling us this shit. Like they’re telling us a story about how hard and tough and bad they are right? Ugly their world is Yeah, right how ugly the world and reality is. Right? Okay, so who is this dude talking to? That we’re talking about

B Black 17:17
it? And that’s why I kept using the word that’s what makes it art for me is the fact that no, no no,

Gavin 17:22
I’m asking an honest question. Who is he talking to? Who is the who’s the filmmaker? Because you’re saying the rapper’s talking to telling us how badass he is? Who is the filmmaker talking to by telling us Nazis are badass?

B Black 17:37
I honestly believe that’s my theory. You know what I mean? I’m not willing to die for it but I honestly believe David McKenna the writer of the story live just live the life and he says What the shit that I live fruit needs to be written needs to be put down on paper and hopefully on a big screen Absolutely. But like to like to try to like to have that like when he’s when he Taking like slow motion muscles and like smirking, stomping, shooting to other black dudes and like doing all that shit. It’s like, Alright, let’s, uh, let’s jump by the sea by CB you can

Gavin 18:12
like there’s a way to film that where the Nazi doesn’t look like a fucking hero in every scene,

B Black 18:16
but then it wouldn’t. It would take away from the Okay, you know, you’re right. I think the white kid who sees us here, right, the white kid who sees us, but who is it for white people and even the white person, some of our listeners, some of our white listeners will probably tell us okay, I’m acting like I don’t know white people benefiting the white people. But I will be like, Yes, I saw this movie. And that shit made me see how are the same way I looked at I don’t know. tookie tookie Carmichael, and I got them to key the founder of the Crips. I’m the same way I look at him. I’m some white guy probably looks at okay, but that’s a real character, too. He’s a real person.

Gavin 19:01
Also you have to remember like just sorry just a backup on the on your point. The writer writes the movie but the director takes the vision over and then from there the editor completely changes it so this is the directors movie. This is the director yeah director changes the vision but he’s a Brit

B Black 19:15
What the fuck See? No but okay

Gavin 19:16
what Okay, y’all know about Nazis? They have Nazis. This isn’t this isn’t an American story. This is just a story that took place in America in America, right? Yeah. Okay.

B Black 19:26
All right. All right. Um, okay, by the end of this move by the end of this review, write in and say who’s more racist governor? Right. Governor me?

Gavin 19:34
Well, here’s my thing like okay, you’re comparing tookie Williams and hip hop like like a gangster rap again.

B Black 19:41
You put me William the

Gavin 19:44
Bloods are there right? You’re comparing that into me. as dangerous as the Crips ideology is and it is the dangerous like it’s not Nazis. It’s not Nazis. Because Crips aren’t there to eradicate every other race on the planet. I

B Black 20:06
okay, okay. And now Okay, you’re saying a lot of things that made me um, holy shit. What sucks about this conversation? It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you. Yeah.

Gavin 20:21
I actually enjoy this conversation. That’s good.

Unknown Speaker 20:24
Yeah, I’m I

Gavin 20:26
guess part of me is like, I can see what you’re saying to like it like you’re looking at it as like, like a like a like a song like a hip hop song where it’s like, telling me a story. Exactly. Yeah, no, I completely understand. And I do. Yeah, I get where you’re coming from,

B Black 20:39
but I’m on record acting like I’m defending the neo nazi movement.

Gavin 20:44
No, I think I don’t I don’t I don’t think I’m talking to you like that. I think it’s more like I’m trying to explain how I see this piece of art or this work, and how I see like it and how I see movies and you’re looking at it from a different perspective. Which makes sense to okay yeah.

B Black 21:04
And then yeah, this you know, just recording this or whoever’s listening doesn’t stop. Are you sure people are like

Gavin 21:10
Nazis? We just got a look. I bought a white hood. I just want to say I’m in the ship now. You know Ryder died.

B Black 21:22
Hey man.

stuff is getting into South End or fucking neo nazis open to let me in. I’m gonna keep my hood on. Yeah,

Gavin 21:30
and just keep your head on. Yeah, because I don’t notice tell him I’m blind you know i i see where you’re coming from. I’m just arguing your point in terms of like I yeah, I know you’re saying with like, My problem with like, it is a fine line. We’ll get into scene by scene. I’m sorry if this taking too long, but I find it interesting. I see what you’re saying about like, like, like, like with like hip hop and like these are stories and there’s just stories and we should take them as stories and I completely 100% agree with it. And I would agree with but even in the stories of hip hop Yeah, that. I don’t know. I don’t know. I think maybe maybe it’s just ideology where I’m like, I think Nazis are horrible.

B Black 22:17

Gavin 22:18
Yeah. And and I think this movie is this like it there’s no, there’s no counter. Like the problem is is like it should. The problem is it’s a redemption story that’s the difference. Okay so okay, this is the comparison, if you had a hip on a song with a redemption story in it. This is a story if it was a hip hop song, I was just telling a story of like, this is the shit we used to do, but I’m not that shit anymore. Okay. There’s there wouldn’t be glorifying the past, where I guess there’s glorifying the past and then there’s like, we’ll get into it. We’ll get into it because I’m also seeing the flaws of my theory right now. We’ll get into it.

B Black 22:55
And I’m actually gonna point out the scene that made me Oh shit. Now. I Get it okay. Yeah. Okay, so, uh, first Okay, so the movie starts out, you know, usually 90s intro song in the background but shitload of credits. And then it starts out with black and white scene where we’re introduced towards our main characters. Derek vineyard and his brother Danny vineyard. Yeah, the way it happens is Derek vineyard the older brother. Yeah, fucking is having sex with his girlfriend. Now they’re very well, sex. Oh, bro. Very well. Yeah, so well, do me a favor, right? If God forbid, I will happen to die and you’re involved in my biography. Okay. Put a scene like that of me banging a girl like that. Like, like, like,

Gavin 23:43
I don’t even know why I’d be involved

B Black 23:44
with your biography. Good point, but I’m just saying I

Unknown Speaker 23:47
don’t know why you have a biography after you die. Cuz you’re not gonna have what

B Black 23:51
the fuck dude? What the fuck, man?

Gavin 23:54
You know what, I’ll, I’ll get someone to chisel something on.

B Black 23:57
I’m gonna show you my own biography. So right Like some pornographic

Gavin 24:03
I watch a scene. I’m like, do people have sex that long? Okay, okay, that is a long time.

B Black 24:09
Okay, you’re the married guy. So you can talk like that. As a single guy. I gotta be like, yeah, of course man on a regular basis. No, I

Gavin 24:15
think we need more stories of men not being able to last long. We need to normalize that needs to be a

B Black 24:25
nice podcast.

Gavin 24:27
Okay. All right minutes. The marathon runner. Do you have a jug of Gatorade beside the bed? That’s what we need.

B Black 24:34
Hey, you start that movement. I lead it from behind.

All right, so movie starts out with Derek vineyard, having sex with his girlfriend. Okay. And in needless to say, she seems very pleased. Very happy to the point that his little brother in another room is waking up to the sound of those two having sex. Yeah, and he and also at the Same time he’s looking out the window. And he notices. Oh, but three black guys are in the middle of Robin of stealing his car. Yeah. Okay. So he gets up. tell his brother tells his brother that hey, Derek, these black guys are stealing your car.

Gavin 25:18
And let me ask you a question. Is there a voiceover during all of this or no,

B Black 25:21
not yet? Not yet. No, no, no. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, not yet. Um,

Gavin 25:31
no, no. My point but Yes, go ahead. Okay. And then, um,

B Black 25:35
so at this point that we established that Derek is, is a racist, because he’s got a neo nazi sign of the neo nazi. He’s got a he’s got a swastika sign tattooed on his chest. And I mean, they again, he might have been putting it for ironic sake. So you know, by 2020 standards. We don’t know if he’s racist.

Gavin 25:55
Yeah, I can be ironic, neo nazi. He’s just good. is doing it for the lulz. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 26:04
So get that irony port poisoning.

B Black 26:06
So and this is I think this is what you’re getting into because at that scene they’ve established in my mind that Danny is the wrong pecker What the fuck with, you know, because he goes What? He can’t He’s, uh, I can say peckerwood, right? I mean, what a guy. Okay. All right. He grabs Yeah, he grabs his gun, dude. I mean, like, a gangster style. And then what did I see? Yeah, he rushes out. Okay, he rushes out the house and we also learned that Danny’s a good shot, right? Because he, um, he gets all three. He shoots one. Yeah, this is

Gavin 26:45
all film like an action movie. Like, he comes out and like, it’s like, he gets he sneaks up on what, you know, was weird in that scene. The way he opened the door. Because he didn’t pull it open. He pushed it, open it are noticing that right to shoot the first guy he door household doors open towards you. The door open going out I was like that’s weird.

B Black 27:12
Maybe it’s an LA thing i don’t

Gavin 27:14
know i think i think I kind of understand what’s going on with this movie because this is all black done in black and white.

B Black 27:20
Is the past this is the correct Yeah,

Gavin 27:22
this is the past this is a memory. This is a memory but

B Black 27:25
I guess at the time you don’t realize this, but it’s only later you realize it’s in the past but yeah, black and white in the past shoots all three black guys. Yeah. And then the Oh yeah. And the scene ends with Ed Norton walking in slow motion like you were mentioning like, you know,

Gavin 27:45
very, very like superhero like, oh my god. Yes.

B Black 27:48
Yeah. And then he’s in his boxers I should establish for the ladies and his boxers. For the ladies. I don’t know I said it was

but and his chest look

Unknown Speaker 28:02
Read Me that neo nazi

Gavin 28:07
like based on bs description, okay? The vapors.

B Black 28:15
A guy like me would be like, Fuck, I need to hit the gym, you know, I mean that’s probably the first thought that’s gonna come to your back because he’s like, chiseled up and shit like that they’re

Gavin 28:22
well, the opposite way. Like I’m never gonna be that

B Black 28:29
and then and then they cut to the black dude. And and the look on his face is like something’s about to happen to him and then they cut away and they jump into the school scene and it goes to like full color.

Gavin 28:40
Full coat Yes. Okay, here’s here’s why I say I like what I would change is changing my mind about a lot of this stuff. I think that’s Edward for lots of perspective on his brother.

B Black 28:54

Gavin 28:55
so Okay, I’m like a hero and yeah, Finn strong agree. That’s how everyone Furlong sees his brother.

B Black 29:01
Yes. Okay. Yeah, I agree with this one. Okay.

Gavin 29:04
So that kind of change that changes my, my original rant. You know what I mean? Cuz it’s like, okay, the scenes aren’t completely but it does change. Okay.

B Black 29:13
Okay, so, okay, so school scene, um, I wrote the word Venice Beach. I guess they establish we’re in Venice Beach school scene. Yeah, um, we’re in a principal’s office. And black dude is talking to a white guy who? He, he looks Jewish. But

Gavin 29:31
that doesn’t mean he is Jewish. He is Jewish. Right But the and the characters is Avery Brooks. DAVID BROOKS from from Deep Space Nine. Commander Cisco I have his action figure over here.

B Black 29:42
Cool. forgot that. Okay. Hey, one point for Gavin

Gavin 29:46
andresen. Elliott Gould is there too. That can’t be more Jewish than Elliott Gould. But okay, first time I learned goals like felt the fish in human form. A what? I felt the fish it’s like Halla bread. It’s A very Jewish food.

B Black 30:01
Oh yeah, he’s

Gavin 30:02
okay. Yeah, Elliot Gould’s very Jewish Can we say that? We’re not getting in trouble? Yeah, now it’s it’s hella bread. No kafele fish. Okay.

B Black 30:10
We’re treading on uncharted water right now.

Gavin 30:13
All right, it’d be like saying if you were describing a Jamaican is like with jerk chicken. He’s gonna be more Jamaican if you had your chin if he was your chicken. Okay, that kind of deal

B Black 30:22
we can be conscious of. Yeah, it’s good. That’s good. Just Just to establish Okay, so they’re having a discussion and argument over the fact that Elliott Gould His name is Marie. Teacher, his student wrote a piece on Minecraft.

Gavin 30:41
Yeah, my calm Yeah. Okay,

B Black 30:43
just to establish it. First time I saw this movie. I didn’t know what my comp was in nor should you know, we were gonna meet Yeah, exactly. So I should, I would establish that it was a very long time ago.

Gavin 30:53
Our white kid in high school and like or when I was younger, who like was talking about Minecraft and how they read it or owned it. I just like, I didn’t get it, but I was also like, why would you want that? Oh, but you knew what he was talking about though. I, he explained what my income was. And then I was like, why would you want Hitler’s diary? Like why? What’s he gonna?

B Black 31:15
I don’t know. This is why kid.

Gavin 31:17
Yeah, dude. It was a white kid. And he was just it was just like, I think he was trying to be edgy Florida or something, but it still is like, I don’t know, just weird.

B Black 31:30
Shit, Okay, I gotta watch my mouth. I have a relative who’s read mine calm. And

Gavin 31:35
there’s anything wrong with reading my income and things bragging about it bragging about and owning it like Hey, man, gotcha. I keep it on my pillow. Gotcha.

B Black 31:44
Yeah. All right. So we established the name of the characters to go back and forth. So it turns out that the student is Danny vineyard character. Yeah, I mean, David, you’re so Edward furlongs character. furlongs character who’s the younger brother of

Derrick vineyard?

Gavin 32:05
Edward Norton. Yeah,

B Black 32:06
exactly. Bang. Okay, so I assume he’s going to be the magical Negro in the movie because there’s a part where he says that there’s a part where Elliot gold tells I bet his brother put them up to this. And then every Brook responds with a I bet he didn’t. Um, something something about I’m not gonna let this but I’m not gonna I’m not gonna give up on this boy.

Gavin 32:30
Yeah, I’m not gonna lose this one. Yeah, it was completely that it was completely like, No, no, how dare you. He’s a good boy in sight. He wrote the most like Nazis thing you could ever write bro like, bro and do something about it was like I wanted to write about civil rights heroes and he wrote about Hitler. Right as well. You said silver rights heroes and I was like, come on. Come

B Black 32:51
on, man. Exactly. Fuck, fuck.

Gavin 32:55
Yeah, like, like all their problems like I mean, anyway, we’ll go on with their problems. Yeah, it was just like he was making. He was laying down for this white kid,

B Black 33:03
you know? I mean, I bet Yeah, exactly. But okay. And then he was laying down for this white kid. All right. Now then he’s in the hallway, waiting for his turn to be brought into the principal’s office. While this discussion is going on, um, he’s got a ball head. I know you dare establish that. Okay, this kid. I don’t know. Something’s up with this kid. Right. Do you?

Gavin 33:22
Do you think that everyone in the school knew he was a Nazi? Oh, I feel like everyone in the school. No, he’s not knows he’s not

B Black 33:31
his brother. Yeah,

Gavin 33:32
yeah. And he takes that American flag off the black woman’s desk, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. And it’s just like, if I was hurt, I’d be like, What the fuck are you doing?

B Black 33:40
I mean, yeah, but you know, white man’s world you know?

Gavin 33:44
In the way he took it was like, this doesn’t belong to you. Yeah,

B Black 33:46
yeah. Okay, yeah.

Gavin 33:49
I would have been like, little shit.

B Black 33:52
Okay, I would have noticed that the second time I’m gonna start pulling up the shit that I noticed a second time. And but that was enough to your Fuck this. Yeah,

Gavin 33:58
that’s that And I mean, it’s a good detail by the filmmaker. That’s why like, I couldn’t work in a school because if I had a Nazi kid like that, Oh, she fucking drag me like I just like, treat them like shit. You know, it would be clear racism on my part.

B Black 34:14
The black teacher beat me with a belt again.

Gavin 34:18
The black teacher makes me study harder. Like I would make them work harder, study harder, everything would be 10 times harder for them.

B Black 34:25

Unknown Speaker 34:26
Especially if you’re a Nazi.

B Black 34:29
So, yeah. All right. So um, so the discussion between uh, I guess the staff is over at Brooks and the pirate every Brooks character’s name is Dr. Sweeney. Okay, and, and Elliot gold is Marie, so I’m gonna use those names. Right. Okay. Marie leaves the office. Okay. And, and same white kid Danny. Yeah, eyes him like, like, eyes him like, like, look them in the eye. Like you know what you’re gonna do type of shit that you don’t mean enough to want to fuck the little kid up. Yeah. And then Dr. Sweeney, who establishes I guess he’s one of like, I’m gonna compare him to Joe Clark from Lima. Me.

Gavin 35:10
Yeah, he’s crazy Joe.

Unknown Speaker 35:14
Now the comment of Batman.

Gavin 35:18
bro you think about when he locked the schools. I’m like that little fire hazard, but that’s wrong up in the movie.

B Black 35:24
Hey, Dr. Sweeney can’t do that on a white school.

Gavin 35:27
Shouldn’t never do that in a white school.

B Black 35:30
Yeah. So, uh, okay, so, but they established that he’s a tough teacher, because, you know, he counts down. So you’re getting my office? Yeah. And he counts down from 10 and the kid responds immediately. Okay, so so he’s got some kind of juice with these kind of kids. So that’s the establish that right? Yeah. Um, and then um, so principals asking him Dr. Sweeney say, hey, what the fuck up with this with this paper. I should. I should expel you for that. And then I love this part here. And this is one of the things that watched it the second time I connected to him. He said, he said, I should expel you. And the kid goes, go ahead. You know, I mean, you know, like, I want to roll with my homies. And then he goes, yo, Dr. Sweeney says, yo, those streets would kill you. Whoa, whoa, whoa, have you found that statement being told to black kids? Not your white kids. So that was I was like, Okay, hold on. Let me start paying attention here. Okay, maybe just something I haven’t seen anything.

Gavin 36:28
And then that statement being told to black kids, not white kids. Exactly.

B Black 36:31
Yeah. Okay. caught me off guard. Right. And it also made me think that okay, maybe Danny is just one of those. Those not knows kids who think they know it all. But you put them in real life, you know, they’ll be crying home.

Mom, I don’t want to run the streets anymore. Like we

Gavin 36:48
kind of lives in like a tough world too. Right? Like he’s like a Nazi where Nazis come over to his house. Like Yeah, so like he like, so I think he has to act tough. I think like, like based on like, how However saying he sees his brother, I think he sees himself as that as that powerful. Yes, yes. Yeah. Like his brother. Like he sees himself as like, because like even like there’s like a we’ll get to the same but yeah, that’s how I think he sees himself as like a powerful Ah, Yo,

B Black 37:16
I had a relative who grew up in a kid, it’s fucked up, you know, I’m connecting out a relative who grew up in North Montreal, right? Yeah. He was not a tough guy, you know, I mean, but he acted like he was a tough guy. Yeah, if you if you knew him, you’re like, Yeah, come on, bro. Yeah, you know, the streets are gonna kill you. You know, I guess that’s why I made that connection between those two. He was a smart kid from talking about but but yeah, the streets would have ate him up.

Gavin 37:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B Black 37:43
So principle punishes them. He says, okay, he throws away his bank card papers. Again, I’m gonna give you a new assignment. To do. I’m gonna call it American History X, you know, naming, naming reference the title, directly,

Gavin 37:58
not even a reference. It is the title.

B Black 38:01
And he says I want you to analyze your brother. Mm hmm. Right. And I guess

the part that’s not establishes

Gavin 38:11
his brother is sorry, it is a paper about, I guess civil rights. And he’s like, I want you to write it on your brother. All right here so like right about your brother’s a hero.

B Black 38:22
Right? Exactly. That’s okay. Yeah, amazing. Okay, and then um, I don’t know what he said, Oh, man, I

ended up doing it like that. Then he turns

Gavin 38:33
Jefferson the Willis know what’s his name from for different strokes he turned into different strokes

Unknown Speaker 38:44
in Turkey

Gavin 38:50
as an executive exactly like

B Black 38:59
one day We’re gonna do a different strokes episode but

all right. So then we’re still in school we cut to a scene in the bathroom. Where these three black kids Yeah, are shoved into this like nerdy white kid. I say nerdy because he looks like prep school type kid, whatever, right?

Gavin 39:18
Yeah, he looks very nerdy dirt right.

Unknown Speaker 39:20
So yeah. And they I wanted to beat him up. I had the urge. I’m like, is this 3d? can we can we grab him? Can we go as an audience member like just seen in American History X is three. You grab the kid getting beaten up to join.

B Black 39:45
So he’s getting picked on I guess he said something like, yo, would you tell the teacher that I’m cheating, like that, whatever. And then who’s in the band in the in the stall is that we call those things the Yeah, the star list. Also comes out to stall. It’s Danny. Yeah All tough guy. Smoking smoking. Smoking in the boys room. Yeah. This is this is be a statue with the white audience that I know your world all right. Oh,

Gavin 40:15
he’s talking

B Black 40:17
so that he gets out of the washroom unless you know that these three brothers know that he ain’t scared. Yeah Then cuz he makes eye contact with the dude blows cigarette smoke in his face and you know, and I guess they caught him off guard. I guess these guys are like the school bullies and the guys standing up to him so Okay, all right. Yeah, we’re gonna need more ammunition for this motherfucker. All right, so a bell rings and black dudes back off. And we’ll say they can’t take a they can’t have Holy shit. Yeah. Just about I wrote that just about what they’re about to have a nigga moment with the white boy. Yeah, the school bell rings. And then and

Gavin 40:57
yeah, see you next time or something like

B Black 41:00
Yeah, some shit like Danny pulls up the

Gavin 41:03
bell. Yes, he got saved by the BAM fucker. Like some like that 90 reference. Yeah.

B Black 41:09
And then he pulls up the white guy says bro man says bro but it’s like, yo, you gotta stand up for yourself.

Gavin 41:14
You know my thing is like every time I think we’ll see like black actors playing thuggish, I’m like, these are actors. Like there’s nobody less thuggish than an actor. This this. Nobody, there’s no one less thuggish than an actor like, and no, no insult to the actor. It’s just like, these are roles that they’re forced into, but like they went to school for this shift that took training, and they go on auditions, and they do on like, they do the most actory things. Like they’re artists, but yeah, anyway, every time I see it, I’m like, huh? An actor. Anytime we see actors doing tough guy spots, I’m like, huh? Okay.

B Black 41:49
All right. I’m gonna try to refer the next because you know, the, this is not the best scene in the movies yet. So now jump to the cop headquarters scene. We learned that the air that they’re in they have a skinhead problem yeah and

Gavin 42:05
oh that’s our faces that comes during the scene and just like Oh, shut the fuck up the neo nazis

B Black 42:16
Dr. Sweeney is brought in to the to the boardroom because apparently he’s a he’s an he’s an expert on violence in the streets

Gavin 42:23
which doesn’t make sense to me but I guess yeah,

B Black 42:25
yeah, they have a black guy to come in to talk about the

Gavin 42:28
skinheads and the skinheads.

B Black 42:30
Oh shit. Okay. I’m gonna I’m gonna write that down. Okay. They have the black guy to talk about the skinhead problem in the school. Yeah, usually have the black guy to talk about the the gang problems. Yeah, but no, they have the black guy, which is probably why I slowly started to Okay, hold on. Oh my god, I connected to a magical Negro. All right, I’m gonna be alright. So the park This scene is important to me because we’re introduced. He’s he doesn’t show up in the film but the name Cameron Allah Zander is brought up in, in. Oh my god in this scene they say Yo, Cameron Alexander’s some old dude who goes around recruiting these kids up putting ideas in their head. The word they use, he’s a social parasite. he manipulates these kids to do all kinds of thing buy his books, his DVDs. It’s like, yo, when I saw that name I thought geez alright this

Gavin 43:26
guy doesn’t know it would be DVDs but like just I just pictures self help tapes. Hate Do you hate Asians come to my seminar and I’ll show you how to hate Asians TV.

B Black 43:43
The reason why that name Cameron Alexander heads when it broke out his profile? Yeah, I thought of a we’re gonna get in trouble for this. I thought of people like Tariq Nasheed or the or older people who take advantage of young people.

Gavin 43:59
Yeah. Thank you. Like a candidate, Candace Owens, right? Like,

B Black 44:02
yo dude motherfuckers who taught like a young kids to becoming suicide bomber.

Gavin 44:08
You know what, you know, even though I made a joke about it, like the seminar, self health seminars, the same kind of people like, you know, like this, that prey on people who need who who are angry or upset or been through a tragedy or something, and they prey on these and they go, Hey, here’s an answer to your problems. It’s an easy answer. Yeah, it’s saying anyone like that.

B Black 44:27
Yeah. Have you ever come across someone like that growing up? Yeah, yeah.

Gavin 44:32
You have it? Yeah. I think you that’s when you really come across them is when you come across him now and you just walk away. Or you come across and I’m not saying it was neo nazis. But it was other things that you come across, you know, I yeah. I like I honestly believe like, neo nazi and like, any of that kind of stuff is kind of like Amway. In a way, yeah. Yeah. It’s all kind of preys on people who who are looking for answers. Yes. Well, shame. or something? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I might. I don’t know. Are you finished analyzing that scene? Because I just had one point about it. Oh,

B Black 45:08
okay. God part is the, the seeds in color. So it’s in present.

Gavin 45:12
Yeah. It’s been in present day this whole time like, since since we were Yeah, since I am. I find it I can’t get over how the cops are just like what how I thought that was done years ago like they weren’t like the complexity. They there was a chance to tie this shit to like and they you know drop the ball. Hey,

B Black 45:39
hold on a second this LAPD cover set San Diego to

Gavin 45:43
uh, yeah, I would say come on. Cops in general, right like it’s

B Black 45:50
okay. Okay. All right. So So, so God

Gavin 45:54
is neo nazis doing part of our job.

B Black 45:57
I can’t get okay. Right.

hate the fact that it could be a business right? for a split second I allow myself to believe in the good cop. Gang cuz you’re in the movie. Like what? neo nazi we need? We need

Gavin 46:14
we should have been trained we didn’t know what do I do if I confronted me? Oh my god, I’m so bad. Okay. Well you disavow him from your barbecue and you send him I know he’s your best friend but

B Black 46:31
exactly like like none of those kids are your your fucking kids anyway. Yeah, exactly. But for the split second Yes. I allowed myself to believe these guys saw them as a problem. And and these kids needed to be dealt with. Yeah. All right. Now we uh, next scene is finished venice beach scene. Yeah. And this is the part

Gavin 46:51
it’s in black and white right?

B Black 46:52
No, no. Oh, yes, you’re right. Oh, yes. You write this in black? No, no Isn’t

Gavin 46:57
he goes down it’s not in black because he goes down to hang out for a bit. Yeah, right, right, right. It’s in color. And Danny’s narrating the scene. Yeah. And he’s the good old days of the neighborhood. Yeah, he’s writing he’s he’s kind of writing the American History X paper right now the exact as he’s narrating and he’s like looking at the black people and like,

B Black 47:17
basketball. Yeah.

Gavin 47:21
Who’s coming up hairballs?

B Black 47:22
Hey, black people going back to the also i guess i also got the feeling that they look like that nerdy white kid.

Gavin 47:30
Yeah. Danny was like that nerdy white kid and he decided to join the white supremacy you know, you forgot to mention when he said stand up for yourself, like in so like there’s there’s a whole through line of toxic masculinity. I think this movie might be about a lot of it about toxic masculinity and identifying because there’s a lot of points in it and that I think about it, it’s a lot of points of, of looking at a man figure and getting that identity of what a man is. And, and but it’s all like it’s, it’s, um, it’s all in the person’s head. Like it’s it’s bigger than what it actually is, or it’s better than what it is. And so like, yeah, we’re sorry we’re at the scene where he’s a basketball courts and he’s staring at Black people

B Black 48:18
instead of black people and and we noticed the one of the kids who were who’s picking on the white kid. Yeah is at the court. Yeah. And an older black guy is looking at themselves. Hey, cuz he noticed Danny looked in his direction. And so now they’re looking at each other. And then the older black kid says, Hey, isn’t that that motherfucker you’re talking about? And he goes, Yeah, you know?

Gavin 48:41
Yeah. And they give him like a gun. Like,

B Black 48:44
like, it looks like yo but you know, I mean, give me give me a reason. Like give me a you know, I mean, yeah, the thing between two boys like you know that, you know, shits about to pop

Unknown Speaker 48:53
off. It kind of mirrors

Gavin 48:56
Danny and his brother’s relationship.

B Black 49:00
Yeah. Oh, wow. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Gavin 49:02
So it’s mirroring that kind of relationship. Yes. With the black. The black. Yeah.

B Black 49:07
Yeah. Okay. And now Now we jump to a basketball court scene.

Gavin 49:12
And this is right after he’s like sorry, I don’t mean to cut you off all the time. But this is right after he’s like, talking about how back in the day we own these courts and blah blah, blah and no one come down. No black No, none of these gang He never says black faces these gang members. It was

B Black 49:25
it was a peaceful It was a nice neighborhood.

Unknown Speaker 49:27
It was a nice neighborhood. and stuff like that. Right?

B Black 49:30
Yeah. Now, this is a I guess this was I was gonna use words. Whatever. I guess a lot of immigrants are coming. I don’t know what. But a lot of there’s a lot of color in the neighborhood, I guess. Yeah. Trying to establish right. So now the same basketball court it’s now in black and white. What’s next I were in the back in, in the past. And, and there’s a basketball game going on. And you know, and it’s a mixed crowd of black and whites playing together, but played together but on the stage. We find Derek and that Cameron What do you call it? Cameron Alexander. Yeah. AKA white Tariq machine.

Unknown Speaker 50:08
Yeah, I was gonna say Cameron Crowe but yeah sorry camera. Alexander he camera crows a director.

B Black 50:14
Oh, okay, gotcha. Okay. All right and then um yeah playing with each other now there’s a Seth the fat

Gavin 50:22
white claims there the the fat Eric Eric suply is his name? Yeah Seth Ethan super super early in the white supremacists are playing basketball against some black guys. And in an Edward Norton’s character. What’s his name?

B Black 50:39
Ethan suply. my homeboy, dude, I do lost a shitload of weight. No, no. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, so they’re playing basketball and apparently, uh, you know, and it gets rough. And Seth and the black dude, like to get into and they say, the end argument and it ends with yo Fuck it. into a bet like, you know, I bet I can own you. Let’s do this right. So I guess he challenged from 100 bucks. He runs back to a Cameron Diaz, Cameron, Alexander and, and Derek Courtney said, yo, did you imagine Cameron Diaz in that part, though? I know. They ask for 100 bucks. And then these guys know this fat ass can’t win this court, you know, so and you know, and you know, this is like the honor of white supremacy

Gavin 51:31
is and this is all black and white, right?

B Black 51:33
All black and white. So, so Derek says fuck it, you know what I mean? I mean, I’m gonna handle this right?

Gavin 51:39
Yeah, I’m gonna have to step up.

B Black 51:41

Gavin 51:42
right. And, you know, I’m, I’m the I’m the golden God. To go with this.

B Black 51:47
Yes, yes. Hitler chose me. Yeah. That Uh, yeah. So he raises the stakes. He says, I Okay, look, we’re going to play blacks against whites. And if we win, you guys have to go. back to Africa. Yeah, right okay. They don’t say Africa but the point is you guys have to leave the court you know, I mean, or whatever the fuck but we own this this becomes our core. No no complaining no anything you guys got to leave? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 52:12
yeah you know and back to those terms

B Black 52:15
Black Dog we’re not gonna lose

Gavin 52:16
you Why would a Nazi lie to us? Okay I’ll take your bed gentleman’s bed your your your kind is known for fairness and not lying. Absolutely.

B Black 52:33
What about what the state of America told us? I don’t know what they’re talking about.

Gavin 52:37
Just hold on to these small like it’s first before we play

B Black 52:42
so we’ll go into the details needless to say the black dude rooms

Gavin 52:46
they play the game and not only do they lose but like like they he jumps in the game where the black guys are up eight to six. I didn’t know that part. Yeah. And he’s like, No, we’ll go we’ll we’ll play with your eight to six and then at the end of the He doesn’t like it’s a slow motion dunk like it’s just the music is built up and everything’s built up to make him look like he’s the fucking baddest motherfucker. Oh, yeah, there’s ever played basketball and he dumped on some black guys like that. Oh my god.

B Black 53:13
Oh yeah, okay,

Unknown Speaker 53:15
he has gas

B Black 53:17
you can’t go back to the hoop. But you can tell you know this was like a victory for for white people well

Gavin 53:23
yeah that’s it was totally built like it was a victory for White. Oh yeah right white race exam the way Edward furlongs talking about it too, like he’s narrating it’s like yeah, this was this was my brother saved the white race today.

B Black 53:37
Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly. Okay. All right. So next scene now where we jumped to I call it the Derrick home scene. And this it’s in color. Derek is out from prison. Okay, home. Um, Danny is running home. And because he remembers his brothers being released today. The whole family is home. Yeah, something like I didn’t notice before that I that I noticed now that like rewatching these guys are poor.

Unknown Speaker 54:06
Yeah, they’re living in a completely different house.

Gavin 54:10
They’re living in the complete Yeah, they’re living in like a two bedroom house or a one bedroom house. apartment I should say. Right, right. It’s in a bad it’s in a it’s in a poor neighborhood. I won’t say bad haven. poor neighborhood.

B Black 54:23
Donna trailer house, but it’s like, you know, I’m becoming of a white man. For the white Yeah. For the white people. Right? Yeah. Um, so you know that, you know, he comes in, he sees his brother. He’s all happy like that. It’s a homerun union thing right. Now, Derek. Got a full set of hair now, right?

Gavin 54:46
Yeah. Yeah, he his hair’s longer. Yeah, it’s it’s all shaved and even everyone’s commenting on your hair grow except for his mom and sister. Zach.

B Black 54:56
Yeah, so he looks at his brother and like, there’s a sense of Should you shaved your head? You don’t mean any notices?

Gavin 55:03
Uh, well, they don’t really I don’t think they really think anything about it. Like I don’t think his brother is just like Hey, what’s Oh, you’re in prison you let your hair go that’s not like come on. We gotta get back get you back into shit.

B Black 55:13
No, no, I’m saying Derek looks at his younger brother sees a shaved head. Yeah, and notices the DLC tattoo on his uh, on his what he called that on his arm yeah, forearm and his forearm right. You know, DLC stands for by the way now.

Gavin 55:30
On occasion, occasion.

B Black 55:36
lost another advertising All right. A disciple of Christ. So I guess it’s the gang, the white supremacy gang. It’s called so

Gavin 55:45
let me understand this because I was just watching I’m watching David Simon’s new show and they’re talking about the clan. The clan doesn’t like Christians. Hmm.

B Black 55:52
Oh, no, they don’t like I think it’s Protestants or Catholics are

Gavin 55:55
Yeah, Catholics. That’s what it was. They don’t but they like but they they’re okay. Cuz Yeah, they We’re saying Oh, they don’t like Catholics down there. I’m like I thought they like it

B Black 56:03
blew my mind when I read that’s like far

Gavin 56:06
yeah, they’re they’re pretty intricate with their Hey, they got they give very detailed

B Black 56:11
they got a laundry list

Gavin 56:13
just like they got so much hate to give away on wholesale with

B Black 56:17
the Coke is what the fuck

Gavin 56:21
yeah cuz I didn’t like I turned my wife I’m like I thought I thought they were Christian just like no Catholic they’re Catholic, right? a Protestant or some shit like that some fucking King didn’t want a divorce kind of horseshit kind of

B Black 56:37
European history, man.

Gavin 56:39
Yeah, some horror like, I don’t know how you can divvy up. Anyway, yes. Sorry. Yeah.

B Black 56:46
So was it scene ends, okay. All right. So this scene ends with doesn’t approve of the tattoo. Scene ends with him getting a phone call. He takes it in another room. Yeah. And, and there’s a shocked look on there. face I think you said he did what you mean. And then they cut away from that scene to introduce Seth the fat guy in this Yeah.

Gavin 57:08
Well they introduced him we introduced him before right because in the basketball game but yeah, he’s driving his fan and he was playing that song

B Black 57:15
Yes. I forget what no but it ends with the language the way again

Gavin 57:21
it’s a with that and that was the end sorry.

B Black 57:24
The white way sprints I forget

Gavin 57:27
it Glory Glory Hallelujah.

B Black 57:29
Or so like that. Yeah. Every time I see a skinhead I think of he’s singing that song right now.

Gavin 57:34
When I listen to unlike just imagine you can only listen to songs that like let it like enjoy entertainment that reinforces your I’m gonna say political but your hate for view like that’s like, you can’t listen to any like I can’t You can’t listen to like, say, I don’t know the clan. There’s no clan version of the weekend. You know? I mean, like you just listen to Something that says hey, I just want to listen to the fucking music. Everything’s gotta be like the shit that you think all the fucking time

B Black 58:10
you know, I can’t call you know,

Gavin 58:13
your shitty their artists have to be because you don’t have to be good you just gotta say this shit that it’s in their head.

B Black 58:18
This is why I keep saying I feel like this is an honest view of a white person’s world could we can’t relate to this shit man. I don’t

Gavin 58:27
know if it’s a white person’s world I think it’s someone who’s in in neo nazi neo nazi I also think it might be like a toxic masculinity like that’s what it might be. Ah,

B Black 58:40
we got these guys are kidding Oh, these guys are teens right their teams and stuff like that but whatever. Whatever. Dumb. Alright, so we’re back to Derek’s home scene. Yeah. And and what is this? I said stuff comes in and he established that he’s an asshole because he he disrespects his sister. After fat shaming him. I’ve used the words that we didn’t use in the night.

Gavin 59:02
Well yeah, and he must be doing this all the time like cut like he’s the male role model. in in the in in Edward furlongs life like he comes into the house. Yeah. The mother the sister, no one can do anything. They don’t want him around, but he has become Yes. Like there’s no there’s no firewall. There’s no blocking this fucking guy. Yeah, he’s like, get the fuck out of my way. And he caught him. Right? It’s almost a breaking entry, right? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it’s just like in Edward Norton’s character has been away to jail. So this he must been coming in this whole time. Three years. And he is the male role model. To Edward Furlong

B Black 59:41
to Edward for Yeah, exactly. And then, um, then then I’m sure okay, there’s a bunch of parts that I’m that I’m missing but um, we’re cutting. I’m just gonna cut to the the black and white scene. The next scene is because I think they he says, Okay, we’re having a party for you. This time that you want to take take some time off. Party and he wants to leave with with the fat with his fat friend. Why don’t I call him his fat friend but Seth, right? Yes, sir. All right. So now we jumped to a black and white scene of Derrick. In a parking lot, having I call it the I call it the Derrick white power rate store scene. All right, okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, this is black and white. Again, black and white, then a parking lot. And they’re establishing that Derek is the alpha male in this motherfucker, cuz he’s saying, yo, Everyone gather around. Come on. He’s talking like a black guy. Yo, y’all gather around, you know, the white version of whatever that is. He’s like Malcolm X.

Gavin 1:00:35
Like, whoa, let me let me finish my

B Black 1:00:41
cut. We got a we got him going.

Gavin 1:00:48
He’s like he’s a he’s a white nationalist mountain. Malcolm. Like he knows how to talk. He talks truth to them their version of truth. Yes. And he’s very articulate, very smart and And they’re laughing. He’s like, it’s not funny. This Yeah, I needed doing this. And there’s points in it. Like he kind of hits on like there is problems in their neighborhood. Like Clearly, there is an issue with like jobs and shit like that, like it’s been going on forever. But their targets are the wrong targets clearly. Oh, yeah. But he’s articulating this idea and their voice and he’s very powerful and commanding, and it’s all he’s tough. He’s always has a shirt off like I just pitched him

B Black 1:01:29
he’s got a bomber jacket. Okay,

Gavin 1:01:30
but yeah, everything is tough and just like like that. Yeah, he’s got

B Black 1:01:35
he’s got a rally and then basically he incites everyone okay to raid a Korean store that hires according to him illegal immigrants Yeah, or shit like that. Right? But you know, it’s one of those Hey, we’re poor. They got money. That’s a problem and so they raid the stores.

Gavin 1:01:52
Yeah. And and the raid is done kind of it. There’s moments in it slow motion but very much. Like it’s very animalistic. But it’s also very organized. Yeah. And it’s very and it shows them having power over these people.

B Black 1:02:05
Oh my god.

Gavin 1:02:06
No but scary. Yeah, like they they’re the cashier over the thing and pour milk and all this food on her and yeah, there was a cash registers stirred through the window guy comes out with a gun and he gets them and they cut it looks like a coordinated attack as opposed to like, just fucking like and there’s no opposition to these guys. There’s nothing there’s no opposition like that.

B Black 1:02:27
Yeah, yeah,

Gavin 1:02:28
yeah, they look very strong and powerful

B Black 1:02:30
they look Now, the reason why, like I said, beginning I said, yo, how I caught on to the fact that these are poor white folks. So the problems that Derek kept bringing up is like, yeah, I mean, you know, he’s having poor people problems. It should like I’m not agreeing with the solution. I’m just saying,

Gavin 1:02:46
I guess that’s what I said before. Yeah, yeah. I said like, Yeah, he’s talking to

B Black 1:02:52
you. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah. But like I said, the first time I watched it, I was too young to understand shit like, you know, Oh, all right. Poor people, not so poor people shit like that. What? I didn’t pick up on things like that. Alright, so um, they raid the store was anyone they raid the store and then okay and now we jump to the dinner conversation scene. Mm hmm right um which is in black and white stone it’s still in black and white Yeah, yeah. And at this table we have Marie the teacher of I guess is dating Derek’s mom. Okay, yeah sister his little brother and Derek. Yeah, right and they’re having a passionate argument or that we’re passionate about the

Gavin 1:03:41
gay rights it’s that’s a debate is led right yeah at the

B Black 1:03:44
at the Le right now yeah second back connected to the way because there ends up going on a racist tirade that Yeah, right. Yeah, but the way he was talking, Bro, I seen I seen the black version of that guy. Yeah. Use the exact same word. You know, he, he didn’t say he didn’t use words like mirrors or whatever, but he just says, like any. He’s not hearing any argue con argument that you have to say or anything that you anything that’s logical. He just hears what it’s in his mind. And all he wants you to hear is what he’s got to say.

Gavin 1:04:17
This is Yeah, and but this is my problem with the scene This is my initial problem at the scene is that he’s saying all these points whether you agree with it or not, it’s like the it’s like the the grocery store scene. But he’s he’s he’s articulating his point. And he’s making a point and he has, he has ideas behind the point and he’s making them and the only opposition is that racism is bad or they’re poor and you know, poor people and I’m like this is my problem is like, well, they’re fucking glorifying the Nazi in this but then what I’m realizing is now is that that’s the whole point is to glorify the Nazi in these scenes because it’s not him. It’s a perspective. The black and white scene is is is an unreliable Narrator telling us these scenes. Okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s how I’m seeing it now how you see, but you’re disappointed that there wasn’t like a Tim Wise at that table. I don’t think there should be now like, I don’t think there was going to be like, I don’t think there should be because I think this is Danny’s or Edward furlongs perspective of his brother. Being just like, there might may be the scene played out exactly like how it is, but I don’t think it I don’t think because there’s there’s a later on scene that shows that things are missing, that their memory is missing a things there’s a later on scene that explains that but this scene, it’s just him. I think it’s Edward. I think it’s Edward Furlong. Like just remembering the best moments of his brother in that scene. Like it’s good. His brothers going to every time they show his brother and black and white every time he’s a neo nazi and black and white. He looks like a fucking superhero. So even in that scene, he’s like, he’s talking and articulate and everyone Else just sounds like like just like racism is.

B Black 1:06:04
Right? Exactly, exactly. So the people who are against racism are saying stupid shit, like, you know, y’all have to love each right, or black people had. And we’re

Gavin 1:06:13
Edward Norton, actually, if you’re young, and if you’re impressionable, and you’re leaning towards that they’re actually their sound arguments. It’s, it’s not even sound, it is at least an argument.

B Black 1:06:25
It’s at least an argument, right?

Gavin 1:06:26
They haven’t the other people don’t have an argument, even even when they’re like, Don’t give me that shit. When you when you say before, you’re just, you’re just substituting things and it’s like, yeah, there’s at least a talking point where the other people are like, Oh, he’s just acting uncivil? Mm hmm.

B Black 1:06:42
Yeah. He becomes about the lie, right? Yeah. And

okay, Oh, I forgot to write that down. But

the scene ends with, um, like I say, he goes on a racist tirade, and that got me. It ends with him saying he gets up. He tells Murray how oh yeah he shows Murray that because he’s all he didn’t shit like that right? Yes mom walks out of the room.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:09
Here all evens?

B Black 1:07:11
oh no he’s all heated and he shows his his SWAT sticker sign on his chest. Yeah. To a fucking Jewish guy. Yeah, man. So I mean, you know,

Gavin 1:07:21
never gonna be around like it’s basically like yeah get the fuck out and

B Black 1:07:25
oh, man I’m trying to imagine dating a chick dating a woman with her and her son is like, Yeah, man, I’m you know, I’m a Klan member like that. So I don’t want you to my house like oh, yeah, okay, good.

Gavin 1:07:39
Yeah, I don’t care what you think of my mom. Well, I’m gonna fuck her one more time. And then we’re through. I will not stand for just two or three more times. And then we’re done. We are through I don’t care.

B Black 1:07:58
Get out of my head bag. Get out. He

Gavin 1:08:03
said that race play porn you ever watch that? I’m like, what is going on in porn? Anyway, so yeah, but like also like he starts a fight with his sister because his sister starts arguing with him and he’s like, shut the fuck. She’s also in Star Trek, by the way Star Trek Voyager. And oh, yeah, she was in like the first two or three seasons of Star Trek Voyager. And he’s like, dismissing her. And then when Marie Marie, I’m saying Marie, like you when Marie leaves. She comes back with the bat and tries to Yeah, and hits him. He takes it like on the side like like a tough dude. Yeah, yeah. And then hugs around. Hey, I would never hurt you. I go, Yo, I was meeting her face. She’s like, he’s like sit the fuck down. Sit down. Oh, yeah, the man in charge. Yeah, he’s like shoving meat in her face. Like she’s the fucking meat. Exactly. Yeah. The fuck up.

B Black 1:09:01
Yeah, he lost the bed. He’s got anger problems. He’s got anger issues and stuff like that.

Gavin 1:09:06
Merlin again, it’s played to look like yes, he has like it’s crazy, but it’s also played look like, Oh, he’s in charge. He’s exactly yeah, he’s the alpha. And then she comes back he does the whole like, Oh no, you know, you know I wouldn’t hurt you but you literally just hurt her.

B Black 1:09:21
Hey, man. I mean, I guess. I guess I’m relearning to it as a person. Okay, I’ve never hit one of my relatives. Yeah, but you explore on someone and

Gavin 1:09:30
did shit. And so imagine doing that to another human being.

B Black 1:09:34
I I’ve never done it, but I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen you know, you just and you’re like, Oh, fuck, it’s like turning to the Hulk. And then you’re like, Oh, shit.

Gavin 1:09:42
But it’s also like, it’s justified in the end like, Hey, we’re all together like, and then it’s everyone comes down. It’s like, Oh, yeah, but he meant well buy it,

B Black 1:09:51
bro. Okay, this is another part where I understood in this theme in the sense that I want to be clear I am not saying that when it comes to racism, white people have as bad as black people. I’m not saying this right, but I’m saying this is the first time. A yes in 2020 where I saw racism being a problem for white people. Because in their mind, Derek is the dude who joined the cult. Yeah, he joined the hope of white supremacy and he’s been a pain in the ass. Like, we can’t have it for Christmas dinner. You can’t have him for fucking for fucking Thanksgiving. This motherfucker is gonna ruin shit. You know? I understood both proud of them like Oh, wow.

Gavin 1:10:36
So you know, I mean, well, I mean, like, it’s, it’s not even because like, I mean, to me, like white supremacy. These people live in white supremacy like she can she can date a Jewish guy and then like, I got to deal with my like, there’s there’s no they can sit there and pontificate on, you know, black people on a riot that they have nothing to do with. They get it’s like, like, it’s it’s Like a site, it’s a step from there to like, let’s talk about IQs. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, they can talk about black people’s problems like, very they can solve these. Like, what was I watching the other day where someone turned Oh, it was a it was as watching Westworld where they were like, the whole episode is about how the whole seasons about this like AI that they use to manipulate people and control people. It’s a metaphor for society. And like how this AI has been, like manipulating people and putting them in certain categories.

B Black 1:11:33
Oh, yeah.

Gavin 1:11:34
Okay to predict the future. And the guy that was running the AI turns to to black characters, and he’s basically like, you know, like, like, you have us in a prison, because we don’t know what to do with you. Like, we can’t help you and we don’t know what to do with you. We’re trying to figure out what to do with you. And it’s basically that it’s like, it’s it’s that mentality of like, I look at these black people as like this fucking problem. It’s not your problem. It’s your your. That’s the white supremacy. Right. So like what you’re saying is like your point of like them. Like this is the hard part about white supremacy. It’s like, no, it’s it’s overt white supremacy is that we’re looking at right so like, the white people don’t have to question themselves they have to go. The civility there. Why are you wearing it on your sleeve like that?

B Black 1:12:29
Why can’t you be those white supremacist?

Gavin 1:12:31
Yeah. I mean, I don’t think that I don’t think they consciously say it like that, but I think I get it. No, no, it’s the civility of everything. That’s what they don’t like is the civility. Okay,

B Black 1:12:43
I just I want to be like I said, I started the statement with I’m not saying Well, yeah, no. Yeah, but it was the first time that I saw Okay, I can see how racist Okay, it bother them.

Gavin 1:12:56
No, I’m just I see what you’re saying. I’m just I’m going like I’m looking at it from like, Oh, this other perspective of like, yeah, you’re right. But it’s also like this is why get out to me is kind of a better movie. I mean on other levels, but it’s like when it talks about races like get out is a better movie for me.


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